Forgiveness and Eternal Treasure: Matthew 6:14-24


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Picking back up where we left off in our last episode, Jesus continues sharing during His famous Sermon on the Mount about the importance of doing things privately for God rather than publicly for the praise of others.

But before Jesus picks back up with this focus, He has a short, challenging message for all of His followers. Of all the challenging messages and difficult ideas Jesus shares, this one is one of the most challenging and difficult, if for no other reason than because of its subject matter.

Let’s pick up reading where we ended off last week in Jesus’ sermon. Continuing in Matthew’s gospel, chapter 6, using the New International Reader’s Version, immediately following Jesus finishing the model prayer, He tells us starting in verse 14 that we should:

14 Forgive other people when they sin against you. If you do, your Father who is in heaven will also forgive you. 15 But if you do not forgive the sins of other people, your Father will not forgive your sins.

Pausing briefly, I want to emphasize this huge, challenging idea. If we do not forgive other people, God will not forgive us. This makes forgiveness one of the most significant characteristics of God’s people, and some might say that this is the most significant.

If you struggle with forgiving others, then perhaps this challenge from Jesus is a wakeup call for you to ask God for His help to forgive others, to forgive a specific situation, or to simply let go of a past issue that keeps coming to mind. If we hold on to the past, this unforgiving spirit hurts us more than we realize and it ultimately damages our relationships with others and our relationship with God.

After challenging those present with this message of forgiveness, Jesus continues preaching. Picking back up in verse 16, Jesus told the crowd:

16 “When you go without eating, do not look gloomy like those who only pretend to be holy. They make their faces look very sad. They want to show people they are fasting. What I’m about to tell you is true. They have received their complete reward. 17 But when you go without eating, put olive oil on your head. Wash your face. 18 Then others will not know that you are fasting. Only your Father, who can’t be seen, will know it. Your Father will reward you, because he sees what you do secretly.

19 “Do not gather for yourselves riches on earth. Moths and rats can destroy them. Thieves can break in and steal them. 20 Instead, gather for yourselves riches in heaven. There, moths and rats do not destroy them. There, thieves do not break in and steal them. 21 Your heart will be where your riches are.

22 “The eye is like a lamp for the body. Suppose your eyes are healthy. Then your whole body will be full of light. 23 But suppose your eyes can’t see well. Then your whole body will be full of darkness. If the light inside you is darkness, then it is very dark!

24 “No one can serve two masters at the same time. You will hate one of them and love the other. Or you will be faithful to one and dislike the other. You can’t serve God and money at the same time.

We’ll stop reading here. In this section of Jesus’ sermon, He reemphasizes the importance of doing things for God in secret, and in a way that only God will see what you are doing. He extends the living, giving, helping, and praying in private to also fasting in private. When we do things secretly for God, we trust that He will reward us.

Jesus compares our doing good for others and doing things secretly for God like making deposits in a heavenly bank account, or like gathering riches in heaven. While we understand the importance of saving and earning money in an earthly sense, Jesus tells us that all the money in the earth is not as safe as a single penny in heaven.

Money on earth can erode, it can decompose, or in our highly digital society, a seemingly insignificant computer glitch can take our money from abundant to absent. While this isn’t a statement for or against a cashless society, Jesus does make the challenge that money acquired here on earth is temporary at best. Instead, we should focus on growing money in heaven.

While this sounds great on the surface, growing money in heaven works differently than growing money on earth. Giving all your money away here on earth can earn some riches in heaven, but heavenly wealth is measured in different terms than earthly wealth, and there is no guarantee that giving money on earth will earn treasure in heaven.

Some might wonder how we earn treasure in heaven, since Jesus appears to place great emphasis on this here in His message. The answer has been what we have been subtly focusing on over the past couple of episodes. We earn treasure in heaven when we do things privately for God, when we give in secret, when we help anonymously, and when we pray privately. When we live for God in a way that gives God the glory, and when we do things for God in ways that cannot be praised or rewarded by others, then we earn treasure in heaven, and treasure in heaven cannot decay, treasure in heaven cannot be stolen, and treasure in heaven does not disappear over time.

Treasure in heaven gains heavenly interest, and while treasure in heaven doesn’t earn us a place in heaven, we can only earn treasure in heaven when we are living for God and have accepted His sacrifice on our behalf.

Ultimately, Jesus tells us that the most valuable part of our treasure in heaven is our hearts, because when our hearts are focused on our heavenly treasure, we live for God in more significant ways than if our hearts are focused on the things of this world.

Jesus finishes by challenging us that we cannot serve two masters. We cannot be looking for and seeking after things in this life while also being 100% dedicated to God in heaven. The challenge Jesus ends with is deciding whether you will serve God, or whether you will chase money or wealth here on earth. We cannot do both, and while society tells us we should choose wealth, Jesus has already framed wealth as not lasting past this life.

God wants us to be rich in heavenly riches, and this comes through focusing on God, serving Him, and living our lives in ways that secretly and publicly honor Him!

As we come to the end of another podcast episode, here are the challenges I will leave you with:

As I always challenge you to do, continue seeking God first and choose to place Him first in your life. Choose to grow riches in heaven by serving God in secret ways while also publicly acknowledging Him. Help others anonymously, give secretly, live subtly, pray privately, and when growing close to God through other spiritual disciplines, do so in a way that others won’t be able to tell. What we do for God in secret is what God will reward us for when we reach heaven!

Also, continue praying and studying the Bible for yourself to learn, grow, and move closer to God. While learning from others is good, always take what you learn and filter it through your personal, private time in prayer and in the Bible. It is through this personal prayer and Bible study where God wants to grow a personal relationship with you and He will teach you what is worth focusing on when we bring what we learn to Him in prayer and study!

And as I end every set of challenges by saying in one way or another, never stop short of, back away from, chicken out of, or stop moving towards where God wants to lead you to in your life with Him!

Year in Matthew – Episode 10: After Jesus shares a model prayer for us, He talks about forgiveness, and why it is important for us to grow treasure in heaven. Discover what Jesus means when He says this and how we can apply Jesus’ message in our lives today!

Join the discussion. Share your thoughts on this passage.

Flashback Episode — A Future without Marriage: Luke 20:27-40


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During the week leading up to the cross, it appeared as though every religious group decided that now would be the time to challenge Jesus. While we often look at challenges from the Pharisees, a group that was not as well represented, or perhaps a group that wasn’t called out by name as often, was the Sadducees. The Sadducees probably stood back and watched as Jesus kept succeeding against the Pharisees, and they probably enjoyed these challenges, but eventually, as Jesus began teaching more and more, they began to notice that He wasn’t like them either.

The Sadducees had two key distinctions or beliefs that set them apart from everyone else. First, the Sadducees only believed the books of Moses were of spiritual significance. While the other Old Testament books had good things to say about history, the Sadducees minimized the spiritual significance of the rest of the Old Testament writings. This contrasts the Sadducees with the Pharisees and other religious groups who took the Old Testament scriptures more holistically.

The other key distinction was that the Sadducees did not believe in a future resurrection. This teaching, while it sounded great on the surface, was not easily supported by Moses’ writings, and because of this, the Sadducees rejected it.

For our passage in this episode, we discover what happens when some of the Sadducees challenge Jesus with a question. Depending on the gospel we read from and the translation we use, the question they ask sounds either hypothetical, or like something that had happened at some point in the past. Either way, the question is fascinating, and it sheds light on why they rejected the idea of resurrection.

While we could read this passage from Matthew, Mark, or Luke, Luke’s version of this includes one additional phrase at the end of Jesus’ response that makes it a little more profound. Because of this reason, let’s use Luke’s version of this event for our time together. We can find this event in Luke, chapter 20, and let’s read it from the New International Version of the Bible. Starting in verse 27, Luke tells us that:

27 Some of the Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Jesus with a question. 28 “Teacher,” they said, “Moses wrote for us that if a man’s brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, the man must marry the widow and raise up offspring for his brother. 29 Now there were seven brothers. The first one married a woman and died childless. 30 The second 31 and then the third married her, and in the same way the seven died, leaving no children. 32 Finally, the woman died too. 33 Now then, at the resurrection whose wife will she be, since the seven were married to her?”

Let’s pause reading here for a moment. This dilemma is the perfect setup for disproving the resurrection, because in the writings of Moses, the setup for marriage was one man to one woman, and while all seven were married to her, she technically wouldn’t be married to them all in heaven, because it violated the structure of marriage that God gave in Moses’ writings. If she had given a child through the seventh union, it changes the equation, but not significantly, because there still would be the issue of who was married to who because while the child would be the oldest brother’s child, the woman was still had been married to and united to all seven of the brothers.

However, Jesus takes an interesting and unexpected approach with His answer. Jesus doesn’t discount the trickiness of the situation, but He instead makes it irrelevant. While the Sadducees had placed marriage on a pedestal, and then filtered their beliefs against a resurrection through this lens, Jesus counters this argument. Picking back up reading in verse 34:

34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

Let’s pause briefly again, because Jesus has said something profound both to the Sadducees, and to us today. In Jesus’ response, “this age” includes marriage, but the age to come does not. The age to come follows the resurrection of the dead. When marriage is not an issue and the dead have been raised, the children of this resurrection are called God’s children, and at this point, they can no longer die.

These three short verses challenge one of the deepest held beliefs in the broad Christian church. Eternal life follows the resurrection, the resurrection of God’s children happens at the start of the age to come, and the age to come is marked by the absence of marriage. These three verses challenge the idea of an eternal soul because the emphasis is on resurrection, and eternal live only being given to God’s children after they have been resurrected from the dead.

Let’s reread the first part of Jesus’ reply to the Sadducees before moving forward:

34 Jesus replied, “The people of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are considered worthy of taking part in the age to come and in the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, 36 and they can no longer die; for they are like the angels. They are God’s children, since they are children of the resurrection.

But Jesus isn’t finished responding and challenging the Sadducees. Jesus has just shifted the focus away from marriage and onto the resurrection. But what about the Sadducees who don’t believe in a resurrection because it isn’t in the books of Moses. Picking back up in verse 37, Jesus continues by saying:

37 But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.”

39 Some of the teachers of the law responded, “Well said, teacher!” 40 And no one dared to ask him any more questions.

In this last portion of Jesus’ reply, Jesus takes the Sadducees foundation against the resurrection, and he challenges it. Not only that, Jesus challenges us in this response. Luke’s gospel includes the final phrase: “for to him all are alive”. This phrase is significant, because with it, Jesus appears to contradict His earlier challenge while also validating the tradition view of an immortal soul.  

Is Jesus contradicting Himself here? No. Instead, in the second half of Jesus response, He shifts perspective, and if we don’t shift perspective with Him, we are left looking at a pretty significant contradiction in Jesus’ teaching.

This perspective shift is easy to miss, but it is found in the first three words of Luke’s extra phrase: “For to Him”. This perspective shift makes the last idea focus us onto God’s perspective. While it might easy to jump to the conclusion that everyone is immortal because God sees everyone as alive, that conclusion is a bad one to take because it assumes that our perspective is God’s perspective. This is impossible for many reasons, but one significant reason for our discussion of this topic is that God is outside of time and we are trapped within it.

To help us understand God’s perspective, imagine watching an old movie. Every time you press play, the characters come alive on the screen. This movie has captured a secondary timeline from the one we are living in. In our timeline, called history, at least one of the actors in this movie has probably died, but when we watch what was captured on film, the actors come alive again.

If a character dies part way through the movie, all it takes is rewinding or jumping back in the movie’s timeline to see them as alive again.

This is the perspective Jesus shares about God in this last portion of His reply. God is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and they all are alive to God because He simply can look back to their time in history and see them as alive. When God holds the remote control on history, He can fast forward, rewind, pause, and focus on any part of this world that He wants.

God has the perspective that everyone is alive, but that is because He can see all points of history. This doesn’t mean that everyone is conscious at all points in history. Instead, our perspective mirrors the first part of Jesus’ reply: We look forward to the resurrection, when God the Creator and Re-Creator, pull everyone from their respective endpoints in history’s timeline into a brand new timeline called the New Heaven and New Earth.

In the new age without sin, Jesus tells us that there won’t be marriage, but I’m sure that is because it will have been replaced with something even better. I don’t know about you, but I’m looking forward to the resurrection, and the start of the new age without sin.

As we come to the end of another podcast episode, here are the challenges I will leave you with:

Always seek God first and trust Him with your life and your future. If death scares you, don’t be worried. Jesus faced death and He conquered it! Death is no match for the life Jesus has promised us when He returns.

Also, be sure to always pray and study the Bible for yourself to discover God’s truth for your life. While a pastor or podcaster can give you things to think about, study out everything you hear from God’s Word to validate it yourself. While what we focused on in this episode is a hot topic in Christianity, it’s my goal to get you thinking and studying this for yourself, rather than simply prompt you to believe the same way I do. I want you to believe what God teaches you through the Bible as a whole – not just some single texts that have been assembled together.

And as I end every set of challenges by saying in one way or another never stop short of, back away from, or give up on where God wants to lead you to in your life with Him!

Flashback Episode: Year of the Cross – Episode 10: When the Sadducees come to challenge Jesus with a question, discover what we can learn from Jesus’ response and how Jesus’ response teaches us about what we can look forward to in Heaven.

Living, Giving, and Praying For God: Matthew 6:1-13


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Continuing our journey in Matthew’s gospel brings us to another point in Jesus’ famous Sermon on the Mount. In this section of Jesus’ message, we discover how God values our private relationship with Him over a public relationship. It may be for this reason that Jesus challenged the religious leaders so strongly. It is likely that many of them did not have a personal relationship with God in private, and that they only acted like they had a relationship with God when in public.

In the portion of Jesus’ sermon that we are focusing in on, Jesus draws our attention onto two specific areas where He likes to see His people be more private than public.

Let’s read this section of Jesus’ sermon, which is found in Matthew chapter 6. Using the God’s Word translation and starting in verse 1, Jesus continued preaching saying:

“Be careful not to do your good works in public in order to attract attention. If you do, your Father in heaven will not reward you. So when you give to the poor, don’t announce it with trumpet fanfare. This is what hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets in order to be praised by people. I can guarantee this truth: That will be their only reward. When you give to the poor, don’t let your left hand know what your right hand is doing. Give your contributions privately. Your Father sees what you do in private. He will reward you.

“When you pray, don’t be like hypocrites. They like to stand in synagogues and on street corners to pray so that everyone can see them. I can guarantee this truth: That will be their only reward. When you pray, go to your room and close the door. Pray privately to your Father who is with you. Your Father sees what you do in private. He will reward you.

“When you pray, don’t ramble like heathens who think they’ll be heard if they talk a lot. Don’t be like them. Your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

“This is how you should pray:

Our Father in heaven,
    let your name be kept holy.
10     Let your kingdom come.
    Let your will be done on earth
        as it is done in heaven.
11     Give us our daily bread today.
12     Forgive us as we forgive others.
13     Don’t allow us to be tempted.
    Instead, rescue us from the evil one.

This is where we will stop reading. It is interesting that some of the oldest manuscripts stop Jesus’ prayer here, while some of the later manuscripts add the familiar closing, which goes something like “for yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.

Whether you believe Jesus ended His model prayer with a nice closing statement, or whether He left the prayer open ended to let us have the freedom to conclude the prayer in whatever way we would like, we shouldn’t miss the bigger picture of what Jesus is trying to teach us in this part of His sermon.

In this portion of Jesus’ message, He amplifies the importance of having a private relationship with God, specifically a private relationship when we give of our time and energy, and a private relationship when we pray. While both of these activities can be done publicly, and in the case of prayer, sometimes should be done publicly in certain cases, the goal of our giving, helping, and prayer must be giving glory to God. If we do anything looking for glory or praise from others for ourselves, then while we may be doing something good, we have the wrong motives, which actually undermines our relationship with God and with others.

When we do things for praise and glory from others, we subtly set ourselves up for disappointment. This is because once we have done something praiseworthy, the next time we do this it becomes less praiseworthy, and after a few times, what we once were praised for is now an expectation that we have created for ourselves. This leaves us searching and moving from one praiseworthy thing to another and trying to outdo our past selves and others expectations. Looking for praise from others is setting ourselves up for disappointment because we will not always be able to receive praise from others.

Also, looking for praise from someone else affects how we live our lives. When we are looking for praise from someone else, when no one else is around, then we are let off the hook for pleasing others and we believe we can do whatever we want. This leads to hypocrisy, which is when our talk doesn’t match our actions, and our private lives don’t match our public lives. The opposite of hypocrisy is integrity, and integrity is when everything in our public and private lives match, and when our words and our actions are in alignment. Living our lives looking for praise from others leads to hypocrisy, because we elevate others ahead of ourselves, and subtly ahead of God as well.

In contrast, when we intentionally give, help, and pray privately, the only one who knows is God, and He is willing to step in and help when we are genuinely seeking to please Him. While some might believe that it is possible to have an empty, private relationship with God, part of me wonders if the more time we spend with God privately, even if it feels like we are only going through the motions, if God is still able to use this time to actually draw us to Him.

While it’s obvious that the ideal for our private relationship with God is genuine, heartfelt, time with God that is not rushed in any way, I don’t know of anyone who decided to grow their relationship with God from nothing and have it turn into this extra close relationship and connection in less than 24 hours.

Instead, like friendships and relationships in our lives with others, a relationship with God takes time, and the time we spend with God, even if it feels weird, hollow, or empty at the beginning will grow into more when we resolve to stick with God.

Our passage challenges us to avoid doing things for praise and recognition from others, because that will be our only reward. Instead, Jesus challenges us to give, help, and pray in a way that when we are rewarded, the only possible Source of our reward is God because He is the only one who knows what you gave, how you helped, and what you specifically prayed for!

As we come to the end of another podcast episode, here are the challenges I will leave you with:

As I always challenge you to do, intentionally seek God first and focus on pleasing Him in ways where only He knows what you have given, how you have helped, and what you have prayed for. Focus on growing your personal relationship with God and choose to live your life in a way that pleases God and that doesn’t chase after praise from others.

Also, as you grow your personal relationship with God, be sure to continue spending time with Him and to privately and prayerfully study the Bible with Him and with His Holy Spirit. While public Bible study is good, and while other people have good ideas to share, always take what others teach and test it against what you know and read in the Bible for yourself. God has revealed truth to us in the Bible, and He has kept the Bible safe for thousands of years.

And as I end every set of challenges by saying in one way or another, never stop short of, back away from, chicken out of, or be distracted away from where God wants to lead you to in your life with Him!

Year in Matthew – Episode 9: In the next portion of Matthew that we are focusing in on, discover what Jesus teaches us about the importance of living for God, and focusing on our personal, private connection with God over our public connection.

Join the discussion. Share your thoughts on this passage.

Flashback Episode — God vs. Paying Taxes: Luke 20:20-26


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One thing we discover about the early portion of the week Jesus was crucified is that similar to much of the earlier part of Jesus’ ministry, we see religious leaders trying to trick and trap Him with what He said and did. However, it appears as though during the week leading up to the cross, the religious leaders intensified their efforts. Perhaps this was because Jesus had chased out the commerce and the money changing that was taking place, and this felt like a direct attack on the priests and their way of doing business as a church.

In my own mind, one of the more tricky challenges these leaders came up with was a trap that related to money, and something that most everyone hated back then. Times haven’t changed much since then in regards to this particular money topic, and most people dislike, but tolerate, this particular subject.

For this episode and our passage, we are talking about taxes, and while most of us probably dislike paying taxes, there was probably a greater dislike of it when Jesus lived.

While several gospels include this event, for this episode, we will be focusing on Luke’s gospel. This event is found in the gospel of Luke, chapter 20, and we will be reading from the New Century Version. Starting in verse 20, Luke tells us that the religious leaders:

20 [So they] watched Jesus and sent some spies who acted as if they were sincere. They wanted to trap Jesus in saying something wrong so they could hand him over to the authority and power of the governor. 21 So the spies asked Jesus, “Teacher, we know that what you say and teach is true. You pay no attention to who people are, and you always teach the truth about God’s way. 22 Tell us, is it right for us to pay taxes to Caesar or not?”

Before continuing our passage to see how Jesus responds, it is worth pausing for a moment to analyze this trap. The trap these leaders bring to Jesus is brilliant, because on the surface, there is no easy way for Jesus to win.

If Jesus had sided with the people and with the popular opinion that resented paying taxes, He would have gained popularity among the people, while also putting a target on His head from the government. The trap in this case wasn’t that Rome would kill Jesus, but that they would imprison Him, keeping Him from facing the cross at the appointed time.

While the Roman governor could have executed Jesus on the spot to set an example regarding paying taxes, this sort of death wouldn’t have brought honor to God. God would not come out as a winner if Jesus had pressed against paying taxes as an issue.

On an equally challenging alternate answer, Jesus could have simply stated that paying taxes was the right thing to do, but then He would lose credibility with the people and with the Jews He was trying to reach. While Jesus didn’t do or say anything for the sake of growing a crowd of followers, Jesus did speak for God, and if He were to come out and say that taxes should be paid to Caesar, then it would be like Jesus was telling God’s people to pay allegiance to an empire and religion that was opposed to God.

A response supporting taxes would subtly speak against putting God first – and this challenge would taint Jesus’ influence and God’s character.

With two ways to lose and no good way to win, let’s read how Jesus responds to this trap in an unexpected and brilliant way.

Picking back up in verse 23:

23 But Jesus, knowing they were trying to trick him, said, 24 “Show me a coin. Whose image and name are on it?”

They said, “Caesar’s.”

25 Jesus said to them, “Then give to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s, and give to God the things that are God’s.”

26 So they were not able to trap Jesus in anything he said in the presence of the people. And being amazed at his answer, they became silent.

We’ll stop reading here because Jesus’ answer is so powerful and profound that I don’t want you to miss it.

First off, Jesus knows who is trying to trick Him and the trap they are trying to use, so instead of bringing the emperor into the discussion personally, He asks them a counter question so that those challenging Jesus would bring the emperor Caesar into the discussion, instead of Him.

While the Jewish people hated the Roman Empire and all it stood for, by shifting the focus away from the Empire as a whole, Jesus sets the stage for a one-to-one comparison. Instead of comparing Rome, which appeared to stand for everything opposed to the Jewish way of life, with God, Jesus shifts the comparison to a person, Caesar, and while most Jews did not like Caesar any more than Rome, Caesar was someone who most Jews had never met – and this detail was able to work in Jesus’ advantage.

The other benefit of Jesus’ counter question is that it brought money into the discussion in a tangible way. With a coin present, Jesus was able to draw the focus onto Caesar being the owner of Rome’s currency, and this allowed for Him to answer the taxation question in a way that really didn’t answer the question.

When Jesus responds by saying to give to Caesar what belonged to him, this challenged even those who supported the taxation, because Jesus’ statement suggests returning all of Caesar’s money to him. This is like a 100% taxation, which no-one but the cruelest dictator who doesn’t understand economics would do.

The first portion of Jesus’ answer caught both those who opposed taxes and those who supported taxes off guard, but Jesus finishes by easing the minds of those who might begin to think that Jesus was placing a human ruler who claimed to be a god above God.

Jesus’ response is perfect because it takes the focus off of self and focuses it on giving. We give earthly respect and honor to the earthly governments we live in, but we give to God what He owns – and He owns our lives. We know this is true because He has loaned us breath, and when our lives are over, our breath returns to Him. Without God’s breath, we are dust blowing in the wind.

Jesus responds to this challenge by telling those present to give Caesar what was his, specifically the Roman currency present throughout the empire, and to give God what is His, which is our life, our focus, and our allegiance.

As we come to the end of another podcast episode, here are the challenges I will leave you with:

Always seek God first and place Him first in your life. Be sure to live within the structure of the world He has placed you in while staying allied and obedient to Him.

Also, as I always challenge you to do, pray and study the Bible for yourself to learn and grow your relationship with God even further. When you determine to focus on learning from God personally, you will be amazed at what He will teach you through His word.

And as I end every set of challenges by saying in one way or another, never stop short of, give up on, or chicken out of where God wants to lead you to in your life with Him!

Flashback Episode: Year of the Cross – Episode 9: When challenged by the religious leaders about the validity of Roman taxation, Jesus shares a response that not only side-stepped the question, but it also challenged all those present on both sides regarding where they had placed their allegiance.